I hope Rhino won't mind the fact that we lifted his comments and edited them for the post we am entering below. When we saw the exchange between Rhino, Brian and Brandon, we knew it would make a wonderful post in its own right, a splendid point-counterpoint between you and Brian. Rhino, I hope you were't too upset by the temporary removal of your comment, but I wanted the conversation to continue on this post and not on a satirical piece about Emperor Palpatine.
That said, we shall only add the following information. Those of you who want to check out Rhino's blog may do so at The Aurora. We don't necessarily agree with its point of view, but we do enjoy Rhino's company around here.
Re "George W. Bush has in no way shape or form overstepped his power."
The fact that anyone could say this with a straight face reveals a basic contempt for American Representative government. Don't wonder why some of us out here think the Republican party has a basic contempt for the Constitution and the democratic process.
Brian, please some examples. In fact give me ONE example. You're so vague. what do you mean? Are you talking about going to war? You know the war that congress voted for? Are you talking about the Patriot Act? You know, the patriot act that Congress voted for?
Please, tell me what you mean, because I don't see it.
You asked how I could say that the Bush Administration has made a mockery out of Representative government. I'd ask the opposite question.
How hasn't it?
You mentioned one example yourself--the Patriot Act. I know, I know, this abomination was a product of the united States Congress, but who controls the Congress? And before you say that Democrats voted for the Patriot Act too, I would ask you to provide at least ten occasions on which Bush has openly campaigned against the Patriot Act on the grounds that it is a threat to our civil liberties. I don't think ten occasions is asking for too much. He's been in office for nearly five years. If he's the freedom-loving savior that you seem to think he is, he must have, at some point, offered something more than mere lip service about privacy and civil liberties. Oh. I'm sorry. I forgot. You can't do that, because Bush has openly supported both, Patriot Acts I and II. He TALKS (on occasion) about freedom but then (on a regular basis) promotes policies which limit freedom or make a mockery out of freedom.
At the same time, this Administration has turned secrecy into an art form. Why did Bush II refuse to release records from the Reagen -Bush One Administrations? Those records were supposed to be released a couple of years ago, but that didn't happen, did it?
And while we're at it, why does the Administration refuse to release transcripts of meetings between Cheney and Oil Company executives? Is this for purposes of national security, or to conceal potentially embarrassing and/or illegal activities? We may never know, but in Cheney's case the answer is truly ironic. We need to protect the vice President's privacy, his client-attorney privileges.
Would that this gang had the same concern for the American people.
Taken together, this obsession with secrecy and restrictions on our civil liberties reveals a basic contempt for Representative government. Unless someone changed the rules of basic democracy, the American people are supposed to have easy access to their leaders, to their government.. But the Bush administration has turned this on its head. Instead of giving the American people easy access to a clean, open, and transparent government, the Bush Administration wants to give the government easy access to the private lives of the American people. Just how does this embrace representative government?
This dove tails nicely into allegations of secret courts, secret tribunals, and, now, secret CIA torture chambers in Poland and Roumania, etc. Which reminds me, our staunch ally, Jolly Old England, is not too amused by the fact that we've been using British Airports to transport unknown suspects to their place of torture. Sometimes I wonder who this administration represents--the American people or a select group of sexual sadists and closet psychopaths.
Just as I thought. You can't name one example of where the President has "overstepped" his power, or "made a mockery of representative government".
Why would he campaign against the Patriot Act? He's not against the Patriot Act, and neither am I. Please point out one example of where Bill Clinton spoke out against blow jobs? You can't! because he is not against blow jobs, and guess what, neither am I. The burden is not on me, the burden is on you! You can't name one example, you said so yourself, congress created, and then approved the Patriot Act twice, so our elected representatives voted for it.
Who controls congress? Well, we do. Let me explain how it works. We elect the people that we want. If the Patriot Act was such an outrage, then why did the Republicans pick up seats in the last mid term elections? Traditionally the party in the Whitehouse loses seats in the midterm elections. Reagan lost seats, so did Clinton.
So all you have is some bullshit about Cheney? That's it? Thats "making a mockery of representative government?" That's all? The cia? I thought you guys love the cia. Isn't that why you want to get Carl Rove so badly; becaue he outed a CIA agent? I'm sure the CIA does tons of stuff that we don't know about, and they always have, long before Bush was in office.
Please, if you have nothing to say, just don't say anything, you're making yourself look silly sport. Oh and one last thing, the party of Sandy Berger shouldn't be talking about transcripts, no one in the Bush administration is stealing documents from the national archives during a time of war and then destroying them so that the 9/11 commission can't see them. I wonder what was in Those documents?
Brian wasn’t complaining about the CIA per se. He was complaining about secret courts, secret tribunals, and the use of torture; points which you failed to answer. So I shall repeat Brian’s main point.
Just how do secret courts, secret tribunals and the use of torture promote Representative government?
Historically speaking, torture is something we associate with Fascist and Communist regimes, certainly not the United States of America. I really wish someone would explain how sick, twisted, perversions like sexual sadism and sociopathy promote democratic values.
Nor did you answer Brian’s other talking point. The Bush Administration really does have the formula backwards. Instead of giving the American people a right to investigate an open and transparent government, the Bush Administration wants to give the government the right to investigate the private lives of the American people. How does that reflect well on representative government?
Again, it doesn’t.
Nice try though; I was especially tickled by the way you used lesser wrong doings on the parts of Democrats to distract attention from even greater wrong doings on the parts of Republicans, but it doesn’t wash.
When Bill Clinton lied about his proverbial “blow job”( as you so colorfully put it), we didn’t lose 2100 soldiers in a war of choice. And judging from the way you boys obsess over lesbians on that drooling toga party that you laughingly call a blog, I somehow suspect that you don’t have too many problems with fellatio, cunnilingus, or anal sex.
And since you refuse to condemn sexual sadism and sociopathy….
Brandon and Advocate 1
Okay guys. Let the mud slinging begin...Or should we say continue?
Brandon Alexander Geraghty-MacKenzie